it’s human nature that god should design your baby?

That doesn’t even make sense.

And what are you basing your judgment of being wrong or right on exactly? Presumably you’re christian (just a guess from your lack of punctuation – oh and you’re complete lack of logic), which means that you shouldn’t be passing judgment at all.

Secondly, if god gave us free will, why can’t we use it to improve our condition? How do you know that isn’t god’s plan? Maybe he gives people cancer to inspire others to search for a cure. Cures for cancer aren’t some man-made unholy curses, they are naturally occurring medications and processes. By your criticism I’m assuming you’ve never taken Tylenol for a headache? Never received a shot to prevent a disease? Never washed your hands with soap to kill germs? God didn’t make toilet paper, so I’m assuming you wipe your ass with leaves when you go to the bathroom? You can’t possibly watch TV or enjoy anything that didn’t exist in biblical times, eh?

The whole problem with your argument is simply a lack of scientific understanding. How does your god’s gift of discernment and free will any different than genetic variation? Besides it’s not like your taking a newborn and chopping it into bits to put into another baby, are you crazy? I suppose when you eat eggs for breakfast you call it chicken?

Now, all of this is really crap anyway because there is no such thing as god, and people like you really stand in the way of scientific progress. Unfortunately, once you die, NOTHING happens, it’s just over. So why the hell would you not want to postpone that?

My own discourse on this can be found at LRC at this address: http://www.lewrockwell.com/giles/giles37.1.html

Dont mess with my mojo

Messiah Out!

What rights an individual should have is a whole other comment thread.

Speaking of comment threads has this on not pulled a Godwins law yet?

You and I might (or might not) agree on what rights an individual *should* have, but they are not “inalienable rights” or ordained by God – they are really just wishful thinking about the way things should be.

But since most individuals have similar aspirations and fears, it’s generally possible to agree on a core set of “rights”, and then communally enforce them. (Of course, since most people aren’t very analytical,the “agreement” is implicit in their acceptance of whatever the regime imposes, but history shows us that prosperity and stability tend to go along with economic freedom, i.e. strong individual “rights” and strictly curtailed communal/authoritarian “rights”).

We ARE social animals, I agree. And we do tend to thrive and prosper as individuals when we co-operate, rather than working alone. That’s *why* we co-operate – it makes our individual lives better.

But our unique human consciousness is individual – we each recognise ourselves as the centre of our *own* universes, and pursue our *own* dreams. If you are interested in evolutionary psychology in this context, you might find Prof Steven Pinker’s “The Blank Slate” and “How the Mind Works” both enlightening reads.

I’ll co-operate with you because it’s in my own “selfish” interests to do so. As soon as you try to coerce me to do things that are contrary to my own interests, “for the good of the community”, then you lose my co-operation.

In reality, we’re probably not a million miles apart in our understanding of the facts of human interaction, but we are poles apart in our conclusion of where our *primary* interests lie.

Speaking for myself, I’ll reiterate, *I* am an individual first and foremost, and a member of society a long way behind. This lies at the heart of my capitalist and libertarian leanings.