Comments on: The One Minute Case For Atheism http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/ The One Minute Case is a new collaborative blog which will present a brief argument about a controversial issue that can be read in about a minute. The goal is to publish one case per day. You can read the cases to learn something new about an issue or use them as a source for longer arguments of your own. Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:29:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Marshall http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-9923 Marshall Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:27:37 +0000 http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-9923 I am a former athiest who came to faith through intellectual reasoning. I decided at 16 that all things had antecedent causes and that if enough antecedent causes were known, then even one's thoughts could be explained. The idea of a god who judges people and punishes some of them for things they must do was rediculous. The idea of free will was not rational. That led me to a depressive phase as I gazed ever deeper into the meaninglessness of existence. Eventually I had to admit that experience shows that humans (at least humans and perhaps all living things) make decisions that no amount of a priori causation can account for. This implies there exists some element of "magic" or "supernatural" element of life (again, something that can't be accounted for by reference entirely to causation.) One, in fact, must accept this proposition for life tho have any meaning at all. Otherwise, every thought and action is predetermined and counts for the same thing as a stone on a hill, repeatedly warmed and cooled until it rolls downhill. I can go on with why Christianity, but given the topic, this should generate enough comment for now. Thanks for reading. I am a former athiest who came to faith through intellectual reasoning. I decided at 16 that all things had antecedent causes and that if enough antecedent causes were known, then even one’s thoughts could be explained. The idea of a god who judges people and punishes some of them for things they must do was rediculous. The idea of free will was not rational. That led me to a depressive phase as I gazed ever deeper into the meaninglessness of existence.

Eventually I had to admit that experience shows that humans (at least humans and perhaps all living things) make decisions that no amount of a priori causation can account for. This implies there exists some element of “magic” or “supernatural” element of life (again, something that can’t be accounted for by reference entirely to causation.) One, in fact, must accept this proposition for life tho have any meaning at all. Otherwise, every thought and action is predetermined and counts for the same thing as a stone on a hill, repeatedly warmed and cooled until it rolls downhill.

I can go on with why Christianity, but given the topic, this should generate enough comment for now.

Thanks for reading.

]]> By: Drew http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-9050 Drew Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:32:04 +0000 http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-9050 Thank you one and all for your comments, thoughts and opinions (dare I say beliefs) on what is obviously a very sensitive and controversial, yet without question, fundamentally, an extremely important subject matter. It has been an intriguing hour or so of reading. In response... a few of my initial thoughts on the matter at hand… ... It is amazing to me just how much "heat" is generated when humans discuss/debate amongst themselves the inescapable questions of the existence of "GOD" or a "god/s" and the origin of all that we know to exist. I wonder, if indeed we "all" were just the product of time and chance, a multitude of random accidents, nothing more than a chemical equation, would such "heat" be generated in the first place?... Would we even be having this discussion/debate? ... Would we even "be able to"? … Would any if this “really” matter? … Why does it, as even this website (and many such like it) testifies to reality that clearly it does... at least to "human beings"...?! Is it even logical that such "chemical products" would be, able to, and want to involve themselves in such questions at all? Or is it that we do so, are able to, and want to, because we are a lot more than a mere combination of time, chance, accident, atoms and molecules... perhaps we (“all”) have been “created” in the very "image" of GOD after all...? Food for thought. Thank you one and all for your comments, thoughts and opinions (dare I say beliefs) on what is obviously a very sensitive and controversial, yet without question, fundamentally, an extremely important subject matter. It has been an intriguing hour or so of reading.

In response… a few of my initial thoughts on the matter at hand…

… It is amazing to me just how much “heat” is generated when humans discuss/debate amongst themselves the inescapable questions of the existence of “GOD” or a “god/s” and the origin of all that we know to exist. I wonder, if indeed we “all” were just the product of time and chance, a multitude of random accidents, nothing more than a chemical equation, would such “heat” be generated in the first place?… Would we even be having this discussion/debate? … Would we even “be able to”? … Would any if this “really” matter? … Why does it, as even this website (and many such like it) testifies to reality that clearly it does… at least to “human beings”…?! Is it even logical that such “chemical products” would be, able to, and want to involve themselves in such questions at all?

Or is it that we do so, are able to, and want to, because we are a lot more than a mere combination of time, chance, accident, atoms and molecules… perhaps we (“all”) have been “created” in the very “image” of GOD after all…?

Food for thought.

]]> By: dwayne http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-5396 dwayne Wed, 02 Jan 2008 03:41:30 +0000 http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-5396 i just wish nobody would have ever filled my head with the nonsense that there was a god when i was a child, it is incredibly difficult to elliminate this info from my thinking it is so sad now that i know the truth that i have to wrestle with conflicting thoughts(thos that were taught or exposed to and thos that have been prooven) i would give the devil my soul ((haha)) if such a thing existed just to get rid of this god idea,, religion is only usefull to guide people who cannot except their situation as is. It gives an idiot an opportunity to say to a nonexistant entity handle my problem, and if they are true believers then they experience the bliss of their ignorance. Same thing can be occomplished regardless of which god is pursued be it an entity, the sun, or a damn rock or chicken! i just wish nobody would have ever filled my head with the nonsense that there was a god when i was a child, it is incredibly difficult to elliminate this info from my thinking it is so sad now that i know the truth that i have to wrestle with conflicting thoughts(thos that were taught or exposed to and thos that have been prooven) i would give the devil my soul ((haha)) if such a thing existed just to get rid of this god idea,, religion is only usefull to guide people who cannot except their situation as is. It gives an idiot an opportunity to say to a nonexistant entity handle my problem, and if they are true believers then they experience the bliss of their ignorance. Same thing can be occomplished regardless of which god is pursued be it an entity, the sun, or a damn rock or chicken!

]]> By: Dwayne http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-3272 Dwayne Mon, 12 Nov 2007 00:00:34 +0000 http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-3272 If there was a god that has been preparing me for my future by allowing my past to be what it is, then i am convinced i do not want to be involved with any such god. Way to go! If there was a god that has been preparing me for my future by allowing my past to be what it is, then i am convinced i do not want to be involved with any such god. Way to go!

]]> By: Roxy http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2706 Roxy Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:07:45 +0000 http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2706 I believe in a higher power or spirit that watches over me. I do not believe in heaven. I believe we were born to live a full life that is our gift from our higher power and to live it well, be kind to others and to care and love others and to treat humans with dignity. I believe when we die, we die. Death is to be peaceful, without suffering. We live our heaven and hell right here on earth and we have a choice to make the best of it! I believe in a higher power or spirit that watches over me. I do not believe in heaven. I believe we were born to live a full life that is our gift from our higher power and to live it well, be kind to others and to care and love others and to treat humans with dignity. I believe when we die, we die. Death is to be peaceful, without suffering. We live our heaven and hell right here on earth and we have a choice to make the best of it!

]]> By: Wayne http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2703 Wayne Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:20:28 +0000 http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2703 Xavier: You just made my point that it is useless to argue with a religious person. The existence of the universe or universes proves nothing about the existence or non-existence of a god. Either there was no beginning, the universe always was, or you have to believe that something created something from nothing. Both are beyond out comprehension. Xavier: You just made my point that it is useless to argue with a religious person. The existence of the universe or universes proves nothing about the existence or non-existence of a god. Either there was no beginning, the universe always was, or you have to believe that something created something from nothing. Both are beyond out comprehension.

]]> By: Donovan http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2701 Donovan Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:03:51 +0000 http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2701 Jsut a small clarification of the whole atheism thing...in case it become necessary : ) http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismmyths/p/DenialGod.htm Jsut a small clarification of the whole atheism thing…in case it become necessary : )

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismmyths/p/DenialGod.htm

]]> By: Donovan http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2699 Donovan Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:51:13 +0000 http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2699 But Xavier, we never tried to DISPROVE god through the atrocities committed in his name. We just want absolutely NOTHING to do with an organization that time and time again uses propaganda, genocide, intimidation, and door-to-door flier nazis to propagate their "faith" on the masses. But Xavier, we never tried to DISPROVE god through the atrocities committed in his name. We just want absolutely NOTHING to do with an organization that time and time again uses propaganda, genocide, intimidation, and door-to-door flier nazis to propagate their “faith” on the masses.

]]> By: Peabody http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2697 Peabody Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:48:28 +0000 http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2697 When I see 'believers' fighting and killing each other (doesn't matter which religions are involved). I'm a happy guy. That means fewer nut-jobs left on the planet that want to kill me, or want to scream at me about going to hell. Oh, and by the way, I am not violent or encourage violence. I don't have to. Most religions favor violence as a way to end an argument, or make a point. When I see ‘believers’ fighting and killing each other (doesn’t matter which religions are involved). I’m a happy guy.

That means fewer nut-jobs left on the planet that want to kill me, or want to scream at me about going to hell.

Oh, and by the way, I am not violent or encourage violence. I don’t have to. Most religions favor violence as a way to end an argument, or make a point.

]]> By: Xavier http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2688 Xavier Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:51:25 +0000 http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2688 The fact is that atrocities have been committed in the name of God and religion. But committing a crime in the name of a goldfish does not provide "scientific evidence" against the existence of the goldfish. Human weakness and perversity often turn people against organized religion. This is unfortunate, because usually these peoples' first impressions are their last impressions and they never look past them into the real message of Christianity. I have to disagree with anyone who says the existence of God cannot be proven, that faith is the only thing we have to base our religion upon. Faith and reason are not incompatible. A rational understanding of how the complexity of the universe actually proves the existence of God can lead one to accept the gift of faith. After all, there is the argument from contingency. Each life form on earth received its existence from sombody else. The givers of life, of course, had to receive their existence from somebody else. Obviously, this chain could not have gone on forever. Some eternal, non-contingent Being must have started this chain. This Being had to be eternal, because if he wasn't he was just another created being in the chain. Instead, He was the creator of the human race. None of this argument contradicts science or reason, the real gods of atheism. It is simple logic. To me, scientists who think they can "disprove" the existence of God with their new, advanced scientific knowledge make absolutely no sense. Somehow, they think that learning more about the order of intricacies of the universe provides evidence against God's existence. In reality, this knowledge should prove to them that there was an all-knowing, all-powerful Creator who knew what He wanted and knew how to get it. Once one establishes the fact that there was and is a God who created mankind, we can see that He gave man and intellect with which to know Him and a will with which to serve Him. We can also see that this Creator must have been the first Lawgiver, because only with dominion over his subjects can make laws for them to follow. When these subjects disregard the Creator's laws He can then punish them, so that proper order can be restored. The Old Testament is full of such punishments. God, as the master over human life, could even take the lives of His subjects. These punishments do not conflict with God's goodness and mercy. He was always ready to lead his straying sheep back to the flock. The pride of the atheist will not allow him to acknowledge God and His dominion over all creatures. The fact is that atrocities have been committed in the name of God and religion. But committing a crime in the name of a goldfish does not provide “scientific evidence” against the existence of the goldfish. Human weakness and perversity often turn people against organized religion. This is unfortunate, because usually these peoples’ first impressions are their last impressions and they never look past them into the real message of Christianity.
I have to disagree with anyone who says the existence of God cannot be proven, that faith is the only thing we have to base our religion upon. Faith and reason are not incompatible. A rational understanding of how the complexity of the universe actually proves the existence of God can lead one to accept the gift of faith. After all, there is the argument from contingency. Each life form on earth received its existence from sombody else. The givers of life, of course, had to receive their existence from somebody else. Obviously, this chain could not have gone on forever. Some eternal, non-contingent Being must have started this chain. This Being had to be eternal, because if he wasn’t he was just another created being in the chain. Instead, He was the creator of the human race. None of this argument contradicts science or reason, the real gods of atheism. It is simple logic. To me, scientists who think they can “disprove” the existence of God with their new, advanced scientific knowledge make absolutely no sense. Somehow, they think that learning more about the order of intricacies of the universe provides evidence against God’s existence. In reality, this knowledge should prove to them that there was an all-knowing, all-powerful Creator who knew what He wanted and knew how to get it.
Once one establishes the fact that there was and is a God who created mankind, we can see that He gave man and intellect with which to know Him and a will with which to serve Him. We can also see that this Creator must have been the first Lawgiver, because only with dominion over his subjects can make laws for them to follow. When these subjects disregard the Creator’s laws He can then punish them, so that proper order can be restored. The Old Testament is full of such punishments. God, as the master over human life, could even take the lives of His subjects. These punishments do not conflict with God’s goodness and mercy. He was always ready to lead his straying sheep back to the flock. The pride of the atheist will not allow him to acknowledge God and His dominion over all creatures.

]]> By: Colin http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2671 Colin Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:53:38 +0000 http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2671 the simple idea of hell boggles my mind. why would an all knowing, all loving god create something that he knows will suffer under his power for eternity? its either the god of the old testament is inexistent, or he is extremely selfish and vindictive. the simple idea of hell boggles my mind. why would an all knowing, all loving god create something that he knows will suffer under his power for eternity? its either the god of the old testament is inexistent, or he is extremely selfish and vindictive.

]]> By: Wayne http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2574 Wayne Sat, 27 Oct 2007 03:15:48 +0000 http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2574 There is no point in arguing with believers. They ignore facts and science. They don't need them. They have FAITH! FAITH---a firm belief in something for which there is no proof. Mankind has discovered much about the universe, life, medicine, arts, and the humanities and has changed his thinking and beliefs accordingly in all but religion. He still clings stubbornly to ancient texts written by unknown men who thought the earth was flat and to cure an illness, you anointed yourself with oil. Ancient texts that were written at a time when 90 percent of the people were illiterate and the majority of the literate were priests or monks. What do you suppose they would write about? If people want to believe in this rubbish, that's their right, but they aren't content with that. They want to force everyone to believe by incorporating their beliefs into the law of the land. In other words they want to live and make everyone else live in a theocracy, their theocracy of course, not a theocracy of another religion that is also intent on making a theocracy of THEIR dogma. The world is divided into armed camps, each ready and willing to kill and die because they can't agree on which fairy tales to believe in. If one believes in the Supernatural, or the Almighty, of a Supreme Being, I have no problem with that. But any belief based on the Bible, Koran, or Torah, is simply stupid. In my opinion, mans worst invention is Organized Religion! There is no point in arguing with believers. They ignore facts and science. They don’t need them. They have FAITH! FAITH—a firm belief in something for which there is no proof. Mankind has discovered much about the universe, life, medicine, arts, and the humanities and has changed his thinking and beliefs accordingly in all but religion. He still clings stubbornly to ancient texts written by unknown men who thought the earth was flat and to cure an illness, you anointed yourself with oil. Ancient texts that were written at a time when 90 percent of the people were illiterate and the majority of the literate were priests or monks. What do you suppose they would write about? If people want to believe in this rubbish, that’s their right, but they aren’t content with that. They want to force everyone to believe by incorporating their beliefs into the law of the land. In other words they want to live and make everyone else live in a theocracy, their theocracy of course, not a theocracy of another religion that is also intent on making a theocracy of THEIR dogma. The world is divided into armed camps, each ready and willing to kill and die because they can’t agree on which fairy tales to believe in. If one believes in the Supernatural, or the Almighty, of a Supreme Being, I have no problem with that. But any belief based on the Bible, Koran, or Torah, is simply stupid.
In my opinion, mans worst invention is Organized Religion!

]]> By: sinead veljanoski http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2551 sinead veljanoski Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:15:11 +0000 http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2551 please open your minds befroe you read this. the world is a place among many parallell worlds. There is a GOD but it is not a person, place, thing. It is in everything. Read up Greg Braden for scientific backup ( also on reaching ground zero). GOD is different in every person's heart but is in fact the same. Religion is confused. Not 1 religion has all the facts. There are many conflicting interests in the world and the people in power would like if we were all ignorant of the facts. Think of the conspiracy theories...a lot of them are in fact true. Personal experience of a close relative....Take the editing of the bible and all the missing books..destroyed. Jesus is an ascended master. That means he lived in the higher dimensions "the kingdoms of heaven" while he walked on earth. The second coming is of christ consciousness. Get your DNA activated by a registered pracitioner and start to feel the energy of your true self which is the beginning of this process. We are changing from a 3rd dimensional to 5th dimensional frequency, 1999- 2012 is the 4th dimension " the time of no time", that's why time has speeded up and we are getting many unexplained diseases and viruses etc, our DNA is mutating to another form of being, we will enter the 5th dimension in 2012 and there will be an ascension process which will be complete in 3013. Science is confirming all these occurences, as usual they cannot piece it together as most of the scientists also need evidence for GOD. How can there not be a GOD, if anyone can see the beauty of the world, the galaxy, stars, the immensity of the universe, which is infinite. Do you no what infinite means?? It means there is no beginning and no end. That is hard to take in but that's what physics is after arriving at. They also know that there are at least 2000 big bangs within our galaxy after the original one, meaning there are at least 2000 other universes within ours alone. There are also at least 11 dimensions according to quantum physics. No matter how huge it seems, how else can it be that we are here. Karma and reincarnation make perfect sense if you look at the big picture. Read up on these. Join the Roscirucians or the Rocky Mountain Mystery School. Study Transference Healing. Feel the energy and find out the mysteries for yourself. Love and light, Sinead please open your minds befroe you read this.
the world is a place among many parallell worlds. There is a GOD but it is not a person, place, thing. It is in everything. Read up Greg Braden for scientific backup ( also on reaching ground zero).

GOD is different in every person’s heart but is in fact the same. Religion is confused. Not 1 religion has all the facts. There are many conflicting interests in the world and the people in power would like if we were all ignorant of the facts. Think of the conspiracy theories…a lot of them are in fact true. Personal experience of a close relative….Take the editing of the bible and all the missing books..destroyed.
Jesus is an ascended master. That means he lived in the higher dimensions “the kingdoms of heaven” while he walked on earth. The second coming is of christ consciousness. Get your DNA activated by a registered pracitioner and start to feel the energy of your true self which is the beginning of this process. We are changing from a 3rd dimensional to 5th dimensional frequency, 1999- 2012 is the 4th dimension ” the time of no time”, that’s why time has speeded up and we are getting many unexplained diseases and viruses etc, our DNA is mutating to another form of being, we will enter the 5th dimension in 2012 and there will be an ascension process which will be complete in 3013. Science is confirming all these occurences, as usual they cannot piece it together as most of the scientists also need evidence for GOD. How can there not be a GOD, if anyone can see the beauty of the world, the galaxy, stars, the immensity of the universe, which is infinite.
Do you no what infinite means?? It means there is no beginning and no end. That is hard to take in but that’s what physics is after arriving at. They also know that there are at least 2000 big bangs within our galaxy after the original one, meaning there are at least 2000 other universes within ours alone. There are also at least 11 dimensions according to quantum physics. No matter how huge it seems, how else can it be that we are here.
Karma and reincarnation make perfect sense if you look at the big picture. Read up on these. Join the Roscirucians or the Rocky Mountain Mystery School. Study Transference Healing. Feel the energy and find out the mysteries for yourself.
Love and light,
Sinead

]]> By: max tout http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2550 max tout Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:44:28 +0000 http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2550 ive been as it has been recently "verbally sparring" with a "Fundy" (i get it. its funny, but i had to think about it for a second) on you tube about a pithy comment i left on his "jesus-y" video. Steve pretty much summed up my thoughts on the whole subject so i will not repeat them.. whts really funny tho is the conversation went from me saying "prove it" to him actually threatening me. for the record, i have demanded outlandish, old testament wrath to be brought down upon me, and everyone i ever said "hello" to.. ive broken every commandment i could remember, except for the "killing people" one...the cool part is i actually got a date from this guy when this "world changing" event will happen. for the record its the first day of 2k8....i dont want some lame, flat tire, or crashed computer, i want floods, death, plagues of disease ridden gorillas, and satan to personally come and punch me in the face. if something equally extrodinary happens, or something i can ONLY possibly attribute to a supernatural being, the im man enough to admit i was wrong, and wil gladly go to hell where all the booze, strippers, and videogames are!..if im right, and nothing outlandish does happen, i just want him to admit, that hes wrong, and that he only believes his religious bullshit because it helps him in some way. ive been as it has been recently “verbally sparring” with a “Fundy” (i get it. its funny, but i had to think about it for a second) on you tube about a pithy comment i left on his “jesus-y” video. Steve pretty much summed up my thoughts on the whole subject so i will not repeat them.. whts really funny tho is the conversation went from me saying “prove it” to him actually threatening me. for the record, i have demanded outlandish, old testament wrath to be brought down upon me, and everyone i ever said “hello” to.. ive broken every commandment i could remember, except for the “killing people” one…the cool part is i actually got a date from this guy when this “world changing” event will happen. for the record its the first day of 2k8….i dont want some lame, flat tire, or crashed computer, i want floods, death, plagues of disease ridden gorillas, and satan to personally come and punch me in the face. if something equally extrodinary happens, or something i can ONLY possibly attribute to a supernatural being, the im man enough to admit i was wrong, and wil gladly go to hell where all the booze, strippers, and videogames are!..if im right, and nothing outlandish does happen, i just want him to admit, that hes wrong, and that he only believes his religious bullshit because it helps him in some way.

]]> By: dyna astro http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2537 dyna astro Fri, 26 Oct 2007 03:53:24 +0000 http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/atheism/#comment-2537 What about all the paradoxes surrounding the teachings of the Bible? God supposedly gave man free will. Lets look at that. God is supposed to know all. Past, present, and future. He has designed a plan for mankind, and we are held to that plan, so where does the free will part come into play? Either we do have free will, and gods has no plan, or the plan is already laid out, and we have no free will. Which is true? Then, there is the question of the origin of god. I know the standard answer of, "god is timeless, and does not adhere to our laws of time and space", but it had to have an origin. And so, had to be "created". Who, or what, was that creator? Is there an endless progression of gods that require our worship and devotion? Please, someone give me an answer, other than,"you must have faith". What about all the paradoxes surrounding the teachings of the Bible?

God supposedly gave man free will. Lets look at that.

God is supposed to know all. Past, present, and future. He has designed a plan for mankind, and we are held to that plan, so where does the free will part come into play?

Either we do have free will, and gods has no plan, or the plan is already laid out, and we have no free will. Which is true?

Then, there is the question of the origin of god.
I know the standard answer of, “god is timeless, and does not adhere to our laws of time and space”, but it had to have an origin. And so, had to be “created”. Who, or what, was that creator?

Is there an endless progression of gods that require our worship and devotion?

Please, someone give me an answer, other than,”you must have faith”.

]]>